Longtime reader and friend of the blog Kapios pitched in with some interesting questions to my Pesach post:
Do you follow any particular denomination or do you think denominations is a divide and conquer tactic?
Also what do you make of the Easter and Christmas holidays in terms of ancient pagan customs?Is this a coincidence or some sort of myth to dismiss?
It’s been a little while since I did a Domain Query podcast, so here is my answer at length. I do go chase a few rabbits down their holes, but that’s pretty normal for me:
To recap:
- I am a non-denominational Niceno-Constantinean Christian, which means that I do not care about, and do not particularly accept, the erroneously-termed Nicene Creed doctrine of the Triune Godhead. I am a Christian, not a Trinitarian or a Holyspiritian. So I bend my knee (which pops quite badly, these days – I’m getting old) and bow my head to Jesus Christ, Son of God, and witness Him as Lord and King.
- I do believe that, to some extent, denominations within Christendom are a clear divide-and-conquer tactic used by the Great Enemy to stop us from uniting against him – very effectively, it must be said. However – I also think that sometimes, schism and suppression of heresy is not only justified but absolutely necessary.
- The idea that Christmas is a pagan tradition turned into a Christian one is a bag of the most odoriferous excrement ever produced by a human intelligence, and the actual evidence that we have shows that the date of the Saviour’s birth was always set to be sometime in late December to early January;
The title of this post is a reference to one of the more egregiously stupid instances in pop culture of the myth that Christmas was a Christian invention designed to coincide with the pagan festival of Saturnalia:
I am sorry to say that I, too, believed in this nonsense for a long time, until I bent the knee and realised that most of what we absorb from pop culture about religion and faith in general (not just Christianity) is utter bollocks.
I also referenced Hillaire Belloc’s superb book The Great Heresies in the podcast – well worth reading. I wrote up a post related to it a while back.
And here’s that post that I referenced about the obscure, Gnostic-linked origins of Islam, which goes completely counter to almost every standard history that we are taught in schools.
6 Comments
I have really enjoyed making a quite long study of the subject, both from the directly biblical point of view as well as recorded cultural artifacts of the period, and of later periods that tend to have little cultural drift, and compare it to the bible as if the bible were simply a historical document written from the period…. which, since I have utter faith in the bible, I absolutely consider it to be.
You may call me a heretic if you like, but understanding the historical underpinings of the bible connects logic to the stories in an incontrovertible way, and Faith IS as logical as it is powerful.
What most people don't understand is that Israel was a recently conquered territory. It was a hotbed of politics between the 'hardcore' Jewish rebels and those clans, like the pharisees, which were collaborators growing fat and powerful in the newly-organized Roman territory. Certain Territories, like Bethlehem, were completely controlled by the Romans, while others, like Nazareth, were hotly contested.
The Roman New year at the time WAS the winter solstice. Mary was a true descendant oif King David, but women could not rule… and women of the royal family were married to rich and powerful commoners as a matter of course.
The Romans had very carefully hunted and killed most of David's line, but the rebels knew that there was one in hiding… and due to the sheer number of Jews that were happy to sell information to the Romans for the right price, the ruling roman body knew it as well.
Now Joseph was an interesting case. He was referred to as a 'carpenter' but in a very real way it was like calling God Emperor Donald Trump, hallowed be his name, a 'builder'. Strictly True, but his real job was rulership over the rebellious Nazareth. This was an open secret.
Mary, the true scion of King David, became pregnant. Of course, the Jews DESPERATELY needed a real ruler, and Joseph didn't have the blood… The tradition of the time, from Egypt to Israel to Phoenicia to Rome itself, was to claim that the father of the True Heir was a god himself… Which is why Joseph basically had NO problem with the idea of potentially being cucked by a wife claiming God was the father… because he knew exactly who the father was, and the Heir to the Throne of Isreal HAD to be pure blood nobility… Rich Ruler or not, the son of Joseph, most powerful ruling Merchant of Nazareth, could NOT be the Heir…. but the son of The scion of King David and God himself was utterly appropriate as the Heir to Isreal, as had been done for centuries.
(Please don't get mad at that… I believe that Jesus was Truly the son of God DESPITE his seed being from common human origins. He transcended his humanity, and like you, I am NOT a believer in the unholy Trinity that the pagan emperor Constantine signed into law as a way to stop all the different Christian sects from squabbling)
So, to continue, the Romans basically noted that the scion of David was pregnant… if it was a girl, no harm no foul. If it was a Boy, certain steps would have to be taken to ensure that this future 'King' would be schooled to take his place as the Roman subject ruler of Israel… The common methodology of the time in a conquered Roman Territory was to appoint collaborationist locals as the military governor, until such time as a properly-raised Heir could be installed as the puppet King.
So the Romans informed joseph that he and his family had to show up in Bethlehem… with the tribute demanded of Nazareth, and with a complete accounting of all the important people there…. before the year was out or his wife had given birth. If such a thing did not occur as part of 'normal' business of reporting and taxes, certain unfortunate accidents would result… like Nazareth getting invaded, pillage, razed, and all of Joe's family being executed in the most painful ways imaginable.
(please note that nothing about Joseph's holdings or Family were mentioned later on… most likely because after Joseph fled with his wife and Jesus to Egypt, the Romans made good on their threat to shorten his family tree to one single bud)
So… They are trekking to bethlehem, a VERY long journey for a man, some of his family, his guards, his wagons full of tribute, and likely an entire huge caravan travelling with the safety of numbers through war-torn, bandit-infested territory.
And Mary has the temerity to break her water just outside of the city. Now, I would LIKE to believe that Joseph decided NOT to go into the city directly because 1.) It was full of pillaging, murdering, raping Roman soldiers, 2) he wanted to know if the Kid was a boy first, because he was not ABOUT to hand over a boy to decades of indoctrination and lessons on how to be a good Roman Puppet Monarch.
he was, however, very traditionally Jewish. He showed up in Bethlehem, but did not enter the city proper… Following the letter of the demand and completely ignoring it's spirit.
So, three of the other city 'monarchs' of rebellious localities show up and proudly pledge their allegience to the new true-blood king… because doing so would cost them their rulership, and most likely their lives, as enraged rebels pulled them down for treason. Three Rabbis show up as well, proclaiming for all and sundry that THIS kid was legitimate… the son of one of David's last Heirs and God himself!
Thus Jesus was both the King of the Jews AND the true son of god himself… the latter being something he would prove later in life.
of course, the Romans didn't particularly have much of a sense of Humor about Joseph's little Jewish Con game, so they decided to take matters into their own hands. This led to Joseph and Mary running like hell to get to Egypt ASAP since, at the time, Egypt was Rome's greatest competitor.
Jesus was both perfect, AND grew up in a life of hardship knowing that the satanic empire of Rome was gunning for him. of COURSE he had a lot more common sense than people could understand… especially when he went around explaining to the jews EXACTLY why they lost to the Romans so easily… because they were stupid, selfish, greedy, and would rather feud with each other than cooperate enough to field an actual army…. Rome was an EMPIRE, while Israel was just a bunch of stronghold endlessly seeking to get 'an eye for an eye' for every perceived slight between them.
And eventually, when the Romans finally killed enough of his followers, the 'rebels' that were true Jews that had become true Christians rather than betraying their own nation for money and power, they got a guy in close. By this time Jesus knew he was the TRUE son of God and not just a political declaration, because God TOLD him so. Flat out. Jesus was freaking brilliant, a total supergenius, and the True son of God himself, which you can tell simply because of how well he truly understands how humans work with every word he said. You should have faith, but the truly ironic thing is that faith isn't really needed because absolute hard evidence is LITERALLY spelled out!
Anyway, close to the end of his life, the Commandus who is the military governor of Israel comes to him and says "You are the legitimate King of the Jews, and we are still willing to install you as the puppet King… everything you can see will be yours, if only you bend a knee to the Emperor, which means me, since I am his representative." Which, to the Jews, and to jesus, was LITERALLY the personification of all that was evil… Old Caius Commandus was following EXACTLY the same policy the Romans did for every single land they conquered… And in so doing, he became Satan's living presence on Earth.
To me, the bible is a history book… sometimes you have to understand that certain parts were written from a few removes, or were changed in translation…. but the history is all right there to be understood.
And yes, they were in Bethlehem near the winter solstice.
You may call me a heretic if you like, but understanding the historical underpinings of the bible connects logic to the stories in an incontrovertible way, and Faith IS as logical as it is powerful.
I agree.
Of course, the Jews DESPERATELY needed a real ruler, and Joseph didn't have the blood…
The Gospel of Matthew states that Joseph was a descendant of King David. I've seen it argued repeatedly that Joseph and Mary were distant cousins. I can believe that. I can also believe that Joseph was sort of a "distaff" descendant of David's line and therefore did not have the same level of claim to the status of royalty.
Please don't get mad at that
I'm not. Your narrative is plausible and fits the facts.
This led to Joseph and Mary running like hell to get to Egypt ASAP since, at the time, Egypt was Rome's greatest competitor.
This part doesn't quite make sense. Egypt was a Roman vassal state at the time – had been for roughly 30 years, actually.
To me, the bible is a history book… sometimes you have to understand that certain parts were written from a few removes, or were changed in translation…. but the history is all right there to be understood.
It is indeed a history book – and we keep discovering more and more archaeological evidence that fits the narratives of the Bible far too well to be a coincidence.
excuse me, I should have said "A big problem for Rome", lots of rebels out that way, apparently.