We are back, at long last, after a lengthy break, with a new Domain Query podcast. Once again, we are answering a question from LRFotS Randale6, who draws an intriguing parallel between the current, parlous, state of the FUSA, and the old Byzantine Empire. Our friend argues that, like the Byzantines, the descendants of the Americans may find themselves one day surrounded by foreigners, speaking the languages of those foreigners, treating the English language (and the inheritance given to them by their English and European ancestors) as barbarous relics:
As the west declines and dies I am struck by an eerie parallel between the USA and Byzantium. If I remember correctly it was the Byzantine Emperor Michael VIII Palaiologos who said words to the effect of “Latin is the language of barbarians”.
America I think is heading for the same fate, like the Eastern Romans we are increasingly finding ourselves surrounded by another group (for them it was the native Greeks). This group being primarily Latin American, typical on the mestizo side of the racial scale. Eventually I suspect the outcome will be the same, as the Eastern Romans became the Byzantines (Latin overtaken by Greek) we will become the Neo-Byzantines.
We may “live on” as a polity, but we will not be the same. I am personally not sure what to make of this, it certainly seems preferable to collapse but… Will our descendants eventually mutter the words (in Spanish), “English is a foreigner’s tongue”?
Will this transfigured nation continue descending into decadence or will it give rise to renewal (with a distinctly Latin tinge)? As the USA before this change was the second coming of Northern Europe will this future USA be the New Southern Europe? Will we inherit the same toxic politics and power struggles from the former USA (much as Byzantium inherited the Roman Empire’s political intrigues)?
Your thoughts on this Didact?
I went through this at some length, first by looking at the history behind the (supposed) statement of Michael VIII Palaiologos. (I’m not saying he didn’t say it, I just cannot confirm it, as I am not historian enough to do so.) Then, I looked at the way the FUSA is likely to devolve and split apart, and I argued that Amerikhastan will break up into multiple nations – at least one of which will be a majority-White, majority-Christian, English-speaking country, in which aberrations and psychoses like Mohammedanism and the LGBTQWTFISTHISSHIT degeneracy, will be outlawed on pain of death.
This is not merely something spawned out of my fevered brain. My own reading into and around the coming breakup of the FUSA, have led me to think that the future of the FUSA will NOT be quite as dire as what our friend predicts. It will likely be much more like what we saw in South Africa under apartheid – which is NOT a justification of that system – or Rhodesia, in which White Christians find a way to build and maintain a beacon of civilisation, in the midst of savagery and darkness around them, by rediscovering their core and roots.
Note that I recorded this yesterday, before I saw how badly the riots in Clownipornia had spun out of control, and before I learned about the activation of the National Guard and the US Marines to go stomp on the rioters. Subsequent events lend, in my view, a certain authenticity and validity to the things I have described in this podcast.
Reading List
- Victoria: A Novel of 4th Generation War by William S. Lind
- The Coming Civil War by Tom Kawczynski
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6 Comments
i’d have to suggest a major rethink of the comparisons, perhaps by starting with a deeper understanding of what byzantium was and wasn’t.
from the very beginning, the Eastern Roman aka Byzantine empire was the single, sole, universally recognized, legitimate, Roman Empire. From long before the start, the greek eastern half of the Roman world, was and reamined, the wealthier, more cosmopolitan, more economically and technilogically advanced, and acknowledged (by the west as well) culturally dominant, half of the empire. The move of the capital east and the later division of the empire were moves which in a sense were the living, viable organism of the empire shedding the expensive, barely civilized, dangerous liabilities of the western provinces , and lumping all the liabilities into one half and holding on to the ‘good’ parts mostly east. Rome itself wasn’t even the residence of the Western emperors for a long time (It was Milan and later Ravenna for over a century before the West fell). There was no ‘silent takeover’ of an alien roman state by a mestizo greek population, quite the contrary, the greek half had been proudly calling themselves Romans for quite a while by that point…. and in any case the strongest single identity which mattered to those people, then, was religious and not ethnic. even the work ‘greek’ in the early years of the Christian Empire, was a term not used to denote ethnic greeks, but rather, pagans, as opposed to Christians. the greek speaking poulation of the eastern empire were romans, and they became increasingly proud and jealous of that fact as time went on and the western empire disintegrated. The fact that they spoke greek was no innovation- greek had always been the ‘other’ official language throughout roman rule and laws etc were always published in greek in all the eastern provinces.
greek as a language was, in the aptly named hellenistic era, the international language just as english is today. perhaps as many, or more, non-native speakers existed than native greeks, in roman times!
so the analogies dont really map well to America if the argument you want is that the peoples of latin america will overwhelm America and establish some kind of new Byzantium. Byzantium was the Remnant that held on and kept the flame going, while the major demographic, cultural, and political shifts, had taken place in the west (and involved the collapse of the western empire).
more apropos would be to think of the current empire or Pax Americana, that’s falling apart. we don’t directly map to the Roman timeline. Politically we might be right now in the late Republic looking at the Gracchi and the rise of Sulla. Empire-evolution wise we’re already deep in decline more like the late 3rd century – bankrupt, resources strained, military power overstretched occupying everything everywhere way past the limit we can effectively control , economy more and more stifled and ossified while presenting an illusion on the surface of prosperity, society being divided and social coherence breaking.. Many factors that plague us did not exist for the Romans – they didn’t have a fifth column actively undermining society, civilization, government, and demographics. We do. they had a powerful new religious revival sweeping through the undercurrents which eventually reunited and refreshed the empire – so far we don’t see that in our society. The current American Empire includes most of Europe and large parts of the globe, but they have never been politically integrated into the Empire formally- kind of how Rome’s empire was maybe 100 BC when the civil wars started. Rome ruled her empire and converted client kingdoms into provinces , etc, systematically all throughout the civil wars and the dictatorships. We are visibly watching our client states slip away from us or turn deliberately defiant, aligning with those fifth-column movements which Rome did not have. By the time we either see a shrink of the empire back to a viable core a-la 4th century, or a sulla/caesar end to the civil wars a-la 1st cent BC, we will have lost most of the Empire beyond the actual 50 states and perhaps even have lost some of those! and yet the core to fall back on is like the old Rome – rotten and hollowed out and abandoned even before it was lost. A fall back to the core might possibly be the Byzantium analog youre looking for but it would almost certainly be driven by a consolidated remnant of ‘legacy’ Americans and probably not be centered on DC as they likely wouldnt see any prestige left in the name or the city, to bother trying to keep, defend, or maintain it. Like old Rome it will quickly turn to rubble and ruins once the gravy train stops. An American Byzantium would be every bit a retrenchment and consolidation down to the viable core, that the Eastern Empire was, and that consolidation didnt really reach rock bottom until the 8th century with the loss of the last western provinces (spain in 711, africa in 698, northern italy in 737) where nothing but the solid greek core remained to keep the flame alive.
where’s the solid ‘legacy american’ core? new england seaboard is hopelessly lost right now, but might come to its senses after collapse really sets in. appalachia/midwest , minus the big blue cities, is solid america even now and might well be the core. Theres a politically/ideologically strong core identity thats sought refuge in the west, montana, idaho, wyoming, mainly- but their lands are marginal for supporting a population or an empire. They’d likely hang on tenaciously to any retrenched American Byzantium, and supply fighters and statesmen, like many of the marginal provinces in e.g. mountainous asia minor in Byzantium, but they could not be the actual core itself. The South has a major demographic problem that has to resolve , depending how that resolves they might end up being an enthusiastic part of an American Byzantium, or they might end up being enemies again like the frankish kingdoms were , always on a whole hostile with the east.
lots to think about but a strong grasp of the original history is essential.
That entire screed might be historically accurate – which is debatable – but it is also very clearly the best demonstration of a Gamma Wall-of-Text that I have seen in a long time.
The comment box was not meant to hold a rebuttal essay…format it as one and do it right.
knowing what i’m talking about is hard, so if anyone calls out my word salad, ill just throw around high school drama words to make sure i feel important. whatever, dude
Gamma CONFIRMED. Run along back to your imaginary classroom now, Professor.
Now for “ackshul” commentary.
First I am not certain the USA is going to go full civil war (4th generation warfare edition) at all. Irrespective of whether or not Trump wants to do Operation Wetback II he may have no choice in the matter. Even among “legal” immigrants (which should only be hawt chicks as far as I’m concerned) the pendulum is swinging towards mass deportations. It has the potential to be the new abortion issue in political terms.
Secondly let’s assume your right for a minute that the USA is going to do the “three kingdoms period” American style. Your proposed White-Christian nation/kingdom (you dirty monarchist, embrace Latin fascism like a man) isn’t likely going to come about. There are only two regions that could birth such a nation, the former confederacy and the Great Redoubt. The first could only be what you describe if it did not include Texas, the second meanwhile you wouldn’t even view as Christians (my money is on Mormons running that future nation).