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	Comments on: The Pope is wrong	</title>
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	<description>Strategic Defence of the Mantle of Responsibility</description>
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		By: Didact		</title>
		<link>https://didacticmind.com/2024/09/the-pope-is-wrong.html#comment-9045</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Didact]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Sep 2024 21:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://didacticmind.com/?p=20976#comment-9045</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://didacticmind.com/2024/09/the-pope-is-wrong.html#comment-9039&quot;&gt;Bardelys the Magnificent&lt;/a&gt;.

That is all true - but note I never wrote one word about Papal infallibility in my article, so it is not particularly relevant to the argument. Bergoglio is wrong on the merits of his own &quot;arguments&quot; - whether papal infallibility gets involved, is besides the point.

Since I am not a Catholic, I care neither for the doctrine, nor for the Magisterium&#039;s extra-Biblical teachings. I care about what the Bible actually says - and when &quot;tradition&quot; stands opposed to it, then either tradition must give way, or we must admit that those who follow tradition over the Law, are in error. There are no alternatives. Jesus Himself was perfectly clear about this when He told off the Pharisees, in the strongest terms possible.

Note also that this universalist doctrine is not new, nor unique to Bergoglio. The universalist tendency within the Church goes back well past Pope John Paul II - though most Popes were generally careful to avoid being quite so explicit about it as Bergoglio is.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://didacticmind.com/2024/09/the-pope-is-wrong.html#comment-9039">Bardelys the Magnificent</a>.</p>
<p>That is all true &#8211; but note I never wrote one word about Papal infallibility in my article, so it is not particularly relevant to the argument. Bergoglio is wrong on the merits of his own &#8220;arguments&#8221; &#8211; whether papal infallibility gets involved, is besides the point.</p>
<p>Since I am not a Catholic, I care neither for the doctrine, nor for the Magisterium&#8217;s extra-Biblical teachings. I care about what the Bible actually says &#8211; and when &#8220;tradition&#8221; stands opposed to it, then either tradition must give way, or we must admit that those who follow tradition over the Law, are in error. There are no alternatives. Jesus Himself was perfectly clear about this when He told off the Pharisees, in the strongest terms possible.</p>
<p>Note also that this universalist doctrine is not new, nor unique to Bergoglio. The universalist tendency within the Church goes back well past Pope John Paul II &#8211; though most Popes were generally careful to avoid being quite so explicit about it as Bergoglio is.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Didact		</title>
		<link>https://didacticmind.com/2024/09/the-pope-is-wrong.html#comment-9044</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Didact]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Sep 2024 21:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://didacticmind.com/?p=20976#comment-9044</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://didacticmind.com/2024/09/the-pope-is-wrong.html#comment-9043&quot;&gt;TechieDude&lt;/a&gt;.

That is not in the least bit difficult to answer - see Romans 1:18-32. It is all right there.

God loves us and wants us to be saved - certainly. But He ALSO respects our free will - which includes the freedom to choose sin. And He will never violate the sanctity of that free will by forcing us into His presence, if we do not wish to be in it.

And, indeed, that means most of humanity is destined to burn. Whether you or I like it or not.

I will give you a very personal example. My grandfather was basically an atheist all his life, though he never really said so out loud. When his youngest son was near death as a young child, he broke down and begged God to spare his son&#039;s life - a God he neither particularly cared for nor believed in. His youngest son&#039;s life was spared. That son became a dissolute and wretched example of everything wrong with humanity - a drunkard, a layabout, a womaniser, a cheat, a thief, and so on - yet he was also a devout practitioner of his people&#039;s pagan religion, going to the temple and celebrating religious festivities with a zeal that no one else in our family ever had.

My grandfather rejected Jesus and the Father. My uncle rejected the gift he was given, and wilfully rejected God&#039;s Law. The penalty for both is clear. It is my firm conviction that both my grandfather and my uncle are in Hell. I will never see them again. And I take absolutely no joy in that fact, because I was very close to both when they were alive and I was much younger.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I think the answer to that first question is manifestly no. God does not create his children for the express purpose of chucking them into the eternal fire.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This argument has a false premise. See above about free will and what God wants us to do with it. God creates His children to freely love and accept Him - and if they choose not to, well, that is what Hell is for. NOWHERE in the Scriptures does it say all, or even most, humans are bound for Heaven - nor can they be.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://didacticmind.com/2024/09/the-pope-is-wrong.html#comment-9043">TechieDude</a>.</p>
<p>That is not in the least bit difficult to answer &#8211; see Romans 1:18-32. It is all right there.</p>
<p>God loves us and wants us to be saved &#8211; certainly. But He ALSO respects our free will &#8211; which includes the freedom to choose sin. And He will never violate the sanctity of that free will by forcing us into His presence, if we do not wish to be in it.</p>
<p>And, indeed, that means most of humanity is destined to burn. Whether you or I like it or not.</p>
<p>I will give you a very personal example. My grandfather was basically an atheist all his life, though he never really said so out loud. When his youngest son was near death as a young child, he broke down and begged God to spare his son&#8217;s life &#8211; a God he neither particularly cared for nor believed in. His youngest son&#8217;s life was spared. That son became a dissolute and wretched example of everything wrong with humanity &#8211; a drunkard, a layabout, a womaniser, a cheat, a thief, and so on &#8211; yet he was also a devout practitioner of his people&#8217;s pagan religion, going to the temple and celebrating religious festivities with a zeal that no one else in our family ever had.</p>
<p>My grandfather rejected Jesus and the Father. My uncle rejected the gift he was given, and wilfully rejected God&#8217;s Law. The penalty for both is clear. It is my firm conviction that both my grandfather and my uncle are in Hell. I will never see them again. And I take absolutely no joy in that fact, because I was very close to both when they were alive and I was much younger.</p>
<blockquote><p>I think the answer to that first question is manifestly no. God does not create his children for the express purpose of chucking them into the eternal fire.</p></blockquote>
<p>This argument has a false premise. See above about free will and what God wants us to do with it. God creates His children to freely love and accept Him &#8211; and if they choose not to, well, that is what Hell is for. NOWHERE in the Scriptures does it say all, or even most, humans are bound for Heaven &#8211; nor can they be.</p>
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		<title>
		By: TechieDude		</title>
		<link>https://didacticmind.com/2024/09/the-pope-is-wrong.html#comment-9043</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TechieDude]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Sep 2024 20:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://didacticmind.com/?p=20976#comment-9043</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s a noodle bender for you;

God is love. We are all children of God. Would God send one to hell simply because he didn&#039;t know or hear about Christian dogma?

Think of a average Chinese mook, going about his daily bidness. Has no exposure to any religion really, let alone Christianity. Toss him into the fire?

How about Kaleb on Clarkson&#039;s farm? There was an episode where Clarkson was telling him about the bebejeezis. First he&#039;d heard of it. Told Clarkson, &#039;no way&#039;, that&#039;s impossible. How about him? Does that count as being told?

I think the answer to that first question is manifestly no. God does not create his children for the express purpose of chucking them into the eternal fire.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a noodle bender for you;</p>
<p>God is love. We are all children of God. Would God send one to hell simply because he didn&#8217;t know or hear about Christian dogma?</p>
<p>Think of a average Chinese mook, going about his daily bidness. Has no exposure to any religion really, let alone Christianity. Toss him into the fire?</p>
<p>How about Kaleb on Clarkson&#8217;s farm? There was an episode where Clarkson was telling him about the bebejeezis. First he&#8217;d heard of it. Told Clarkson, &#8216;no way&#8217;, that&#8217;s impossible. How about him? Does that count as being told?</p>
<p>I think the answer to that first question is manifestly no. God does not create his children for the express purpose of chucking them into the eternal fire.</p>
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		<title>
		By: TechieDude		</title>
		<link>https://didacticmind.com/2024/09/the-pope-is-wrong.html#comment-9042</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TechieDude]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Sep 2024 19:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://didacticmind.com/?p=20976#comment-9042</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think a lot of people do not understand papal infallibility. It only applies to questions of doctrine. For example, an argument whether or not gays can be married. More often than not, it&#039;s about some sort of arcane minutia.

Far as everything else, well, popes are allowed to be morons and have dumb opinions. We&#039;ve had heretic popes, we&#039;ve had stupid popes. This too shall pass. I&#039;ve not met one priest that agrees with what this moron says or mis-states. After his last fiasco with the blessing of the homos, usually the pastor came out (happened to me in two churches) and flat out said, whatever you thought he said they&#039;d do, they weren&#039;t. The problem isn&#039;t the idiot pope. It&#039;s the old, corrupt, and gay cardinals that put him there. Won&#039;t be fixed until they all die off.

I saw a youtubes where an orthodox priest explained the schism between them and the roman catholics. Made sense to me, a cradle catholic. You can&#039;t just up and change prayers that were said for over a thousand years, then declare you alone are the authority on such matters. (Previously, they decided those in councils).

So even though I&#039;m devout, I take a lot of the pedantic nonsense that Roman Catholicism created at trent and later with a good dose of salt.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a lot of people do not understand papal infallibility. It only applies to questions of doctrine. For example, an argument whether or not gays can be married. More often than not, it&#8217;s about some sort of arcane minutia.</p>
<p>Far as everything else, well, popes are allowed to be morons and have dumb opinions. We&#8217;ve had heretic popes, we&#8217;ve had stupid popes. This too shall pass. I&#8217;ve not met one priest that agrees with what this moron says or mis-states. After his last fiasco with the blessing of the homos, usually the pastor came out (happened to me in two churches) and flat out said, whatever you thought he said they&#8217;d do, they weren&#8217;t. The problem isn&#8217;t the idiot pope. It&#8217;s the old, corrupt, and gay cardinals that put him there. Won&#8217;t be fixed until they all die off.</p>
<p>I saw a youtubes where an orthodox priest explained the schism between them and the roman catholics. Made sense to me, a cradle catholic. You can&#8217;t just up and change prayers that were said for over a thousand years, then declare you alone are the authority on such matters. (Previously, they decided those in councils).</p>
<p>So even though I&#8217;m devout, I take a lot of the pedantic nonsense that Roman Catholicism created at trent and later with a good dose of salt.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Randale6		</title>
		<link>https://didacticmind.com/2024/09/the-pope-is-wrong.html#comment-9040</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Randale6]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Sep 2024 01:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://didacticmind.com/?p=20976#comment-9040</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is just the latest in a long line of problem popes for the Catholic Church, whether or not you think old school Catholicism is Christian it is without doubt that every pope since Vatican 2 (including the pope who presided over Vatican 2) is a Catholic heretic. Even an agnostic like me can see that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is just the latest in a long line of problem popes for the Catholic Church, whether or not you think old school Catholicism is Christian it is without doubt that every pope since Vatican 2 (including the pope who presided over Vatican 2) is a Catholic heretic. Even an agnostic like me can see that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bardelys the Magnificent		</title>
		<link>https://didacticmind.com/2024/09/the-pope-is-wrong.html#comment-9039</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bardelys the Magnificent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Sep 2024 14:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://didacticmind.com/?p=20976#comment-9039</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Contrary to popular belief, the Pope is not infallible. Papal infallibility is a very specific doctrine and cannot be universally applied. So yes, he is wrong here. It&#039;s also why the Church has said from the beginning that authority comes from the Church itself and not one man in particular, as men are fallible  but the Church is not. Francis has done far more damage to Christendom than good, but thankfully we are not beholden to his every word. You are allowed to ignore the Pope if he&#039;s giving an opinion, or if he&#039;s doctrinally in error.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Contrary to popular belief, the Pope is not infallible. Papal infallibility is a very specific doctrine and cannot be universally applied. So yes, he is wrong here. It&#8217;s also why the Church has said from the beginning that authority comes from the Church itself and not one man in particular, as men are fallible  but the Church is not. Francis has done far more damage to Christendom than good, but thankfully we are not beholden to his every word. You are allowed to ignore the Pope if he&#8217;s giving an opinion, or if he&#8217;s doctrinally in error.</p>
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