Just because something is unthinkable doesn't mean it won't happen and an American civil war could go on for a very long time without say Chinese intervention . we'll unmix ourselves with endemic violence over span of years

It won't be exactly Bosnia X Rwanda as WRSA likes to quote but methinks Right greatly overestimates its odds, underestimates the enemy and ignores the ethnic issue far too much

This puts me in the nation is over camp myself , no way can the Right hold it together when so many of you don't even understand the world you live in. Hell try and deal with the cognitive dissonance when you explain that biggest source of oppression in your life is corporate and with a few caveats that you have i more freedom than you did in 1970

And I don't have to tell you in war the other guy gets a vote. Current Leftists are terrible in fights mostly but can organize far better and can learn . They are also more than willing to fight , already have scored quite a few kills

And no, you won't get millions of people to siege the cities . That's nonsense the military won't do that nor if they have the power, allow famine tactics to be used nor is the Navy isn't going to starve the ports . The Right can't organize well anyway. Its house to house, door to door , small groups

Now I'm no soldier and make no claims at being some tough guy but I do know is the Right you are often referring hasn't shown the strength to fight for a culture war much less a real war in any real numbers

The US is a sewer and the Right keeps electing looter cucks to office and whining about abortion.

If you wouldn't vote much less fight to keep America from becoming majority non White and run by Cultural Marxists , baring maybe door to door gun searches or abortion its a do nothing movement

The movements real fighters, much of the militia movement think we can turn 2019 into 1790 and that they get back to tax evasion and grifting and somehow magically keep this society going

Good people but utterly wrong and completely unfit to run a society that is 80% urban and that if there was a war, which would be ethnic more than cultural, would become even more urban

Now the Dissident/.Alt Right at least manages to meme and come up with ideas on how to get things done which is far more than anyone in the Mainstream Right is doing . They might even fight if they could figure out what they wanted

No, the fundamental question is what America is to become…or return to.. That, and that transient matters matter less than the longer term. You can look at an acorn and say, "well, that's all there is," but if you miss the potential or even certainty of it becoming an oak you've missed everything important. (SJWs do that a lot, by the way; see the present and nothing beyond it. This is another reason why I say they and the alt-right are indistinguishable. It's a function of academia rendering them historically illiterate, logically crippled, and educationally stunted.)

There's no doubt about the left has basically tossed everything they could that is America in the garbage, but only after wiping their collective ass on the flag and pissing on the constitution. They've almost completely wrecked a generation, too.

But that wrecked generation also shows the limits of their power and influence, because Generation Z is nothing like the never sufficiently to be damned Millennials. Like the acorn and the oak, you could look at the Millennials and never guess that the next generation would be strong and utterly different.

What matters about where we are is correlation of forces, the necessary overt act, and the civil war we can see on the horizon.

The correlation of actual force is completely on our side, military, worthwhile population, industry, resources, food. The left is insane; they can be counted on to commit that overt act (quite possibly via stealing an election, attempting to disenfranchise the non-lefty states, and attempting to confiscate arms; any or all). The military hates the left as I do; they will not support it once the left begins any or all of those. The civil war? Tell me how Boston and New York eat when the army and state militias are blockading by land and the Navy by sea? What, after all, is the nutritional content of some bytes marking a trade in widget futures?

And, though we could certainly kill everyone in all those cities, we need not. Most people are sheep, throughout history, and modernly most city people are fashion-conscious sheep and not much more. When leftism is the ultimate out of date fashion statement, because we hang you for it, you can reasonably expect all those fashion conscious barely and sub-humans to go for the new fashion of denouncing the left and throwing ropes over lampposts for them.

You continue to see regional blocks that don't actually exist. The New England-New York-New Jersey "block" is nothing of the kind. It's a number of cities, marking something above 50% of the population, controlling the rest. Upstate New Yorkers tend to hate NYC. Massachusetts people tend to detest Boston. A lot. A man from, say, rural Alabama and rural Massachusetts also have more in common in values than either does with Birmingham or Boston.

Timor? Where is the super or hyper power that will come in and oversee unmixing populations here? Forget it; it does not exist.

Anyone who continues to violate this rule will have his comments deleted for this post, and any other that I see fit. We are all on the same side here – quit sniping at each other to no end.

LTC Kratman – with great respect, sir, the fundamental disagreement here is on the subject of whether or not America is still a nation.

My contention is that the American nation no longer exists, given that the attributes that define a nation observably no longer hold in America's case, and that therefore the inevitable coming civil war will result in a serious fragmentation of the existing country.

Your contention, if I have understood it correctly, is that because everyone in America is intertwined at the zip-code level, "all" that needs to be done is to kill off as many liberaltards as possible and drive the rest out, in order to preserve the American nation.

I am sympathetic to this argument. It does make sense, up to a point. But the problem remains that in order to follow this through to its logical conclusion, you would effectively have to destroy New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Washington, D.C., Boston, Seattle, Austin, Baltimore, Miami, and dozens of other small towns and cities up and down the American coast.

Those also happen to be the most important centres of trade and commerce that the heartland itself depends upon as well. At that point, there would literally be no nation to defend – just regional blocs with tightly defined borders in a free-for-all to try to grab the best real estate for strategic trading and military advantages.

My response to your zip-code argument is that history shows us that even highly intermingled territories can and often do break apart. A good modern example with a number of historical parallels to the situation in the USA right now is probably Timor L'este.

Again, ultimately time will tell who is right. Given the track record of conservatives thus far, and given that conservatism is an attitudinal state of mind – as elucidated quite clearly by none other than Russell Kirk himself – rather than an ideology with positions to defend, I remain deeply sceptical that an American nation will survive the coming schisms intact. The most likely outcome will probably be a sundering of the USA into a number of more-or-less ethnically homogeneous nation-states, at least two of which will be at war with each other for some time to come.

In this case, though, I'd love to be proven wrong.

Ask the Indians and Mexicans if we can commit atrocities.

The type of Americans that committed those acts no longer exist. That's what we're trying to get through your thick skull, Kratman. I respect the hell out of your military acumen, but it it going to help us in this fight.

Ask the Indians and Mexicans if we can commit atrocities.

And there would be 190 million left, if we did have to. We were the pre-eminent power of the world with 180 million.

Ad hominem right off the bat. I guess you're the only one allowed an opinion here, huh? Just one more freedom, Kratman. Just one more time the left crosses the line, and this time I swear the fight is on! Just one moar!

Kratman, to eliminate the left you would have to kill 130 million people. There wouldn't be a country left with those numbers of casualties. And with the center right's love of muh holocaust, you really think they would even think about committing atrocities on that level? They can't even stand to see one kid die on a beach because his parents were using a coyote to get into europe.

Of course the entire world lives in awe of your demonstrated courage, Eduardo…What's that? You haven't actually demonstrated it yet? I see.

These things require a consensus and an overt act. Nobody but Massachusetts and South Carolina wanted a civil war until the guns opened up on Sumter and Lincoln gave his call for 75,000 militia.

If you're on the alt right I am unsurprised if you've lost touch with the center-right and right. But these people have been buying guns and ammunition in job lots for about 25 years now. They are quick to prepare, slow to anger, and remorseless once aroused. Ask the Injuns. Ask the Germans. Ask the Brits, Ask the Japs.

I've answered the question on police and military more times than I can count. Generally speaking they'll stand with established authority up to a point, but will also generally support the constitution as written and not as imagined by the left. You want to compare credentials on who understands the US military better, me or you? Don't bother; you will lose.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch, Kratman. All I see about these people is blustering about "muh guns" but without the courage to use them. You're talking about people who couldn't conserve the bathroom. NFL ratings were down 15%, but that also means they kept 85% of their audience. Mostly white men.

The question you haven't asked, or have but don't have the answer to, is what side the police and military are going to be on once the orders are given to murder their own citizens. Most of our humble men-of-arms come from this class of people of which you speak. Are these people going to put God, culture and history over putting food on the table? It's anyone's guess, but based on their behavior so far I have my doubts. You fight with the army you have, not the one you wish you had.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there are Based Stickmen on every block in America. But methinks that if that were true, we wouldn't be in this predicament to begin with. The fact is, none of us have any idea how this is going to shake out. And you can't court marshal your neighbor if he turns on you. Better to be prepared than cocky.